The site is also not intended to be a museum, but rather a place where photos can be viewed, grouped, commented upon, analyzed, and interpreted for those interested in the photographs. Not an email, not a phone call, not a note, not a goodbye. Don’t let him pull the wool over your eyes. And now her daughter Kiki, who is 13, is on her professional auditor training line-up. Part of his job, he said, “was to discredit and destroy critics who spoke out against the church.” And so they’ve put a lot of their own lives and love and their heart into creating this religion and forwarding it. I am very aware of the continual vicious lies from Mike Rinder, as many of these concern me, his daughter, and my family. He deserted everyone in his own family, including his mother. I’m telling you, you would have a conversation with him, you would walk away and go, “I suck.” It was the way he made you feel, that you were horrible and this is coming from his daughter and his son, I mean my brother—he never liked him, he didn’t like him. I went there with my mom and my uncle thinking, “Okay good, let’s go see him and give him the benefit of the doubt and see if we can reconcile this, once and for all. Stop, Mike stop!” And he gouged her arm. Mike’s hypocrisy is laughable because he claims to care so much about education, children and welfare and he couldn't have been a worse father. We were getting calls from the hospital in Australia, like, “Okay, she’s going to die any day now.” And the last thing she asked is, “I wish Mike—I was on the phone with her—and she says, I wish Mike would come to his senses. After all, that is the product of a good education, isn’t it? Even when he was with us he treated everybody like shit. Then, when we went to see him a few years ago in Florida to speak to him about the situation he created, he viciously attacked my Mom and caused her permanent physical damage to her shoulder requiring surgery. From her enlightening docu-series and eye-opening memoir to her new podcast with Mike Rinder (pictured above), it's clear Remini is determined to share the truth about the group. He deserted my brother, mother and me on June 10, 2007. As you can see she is proudly announcing that her daughter Manaka was a Class V auditor and Clear at age 14 and joined the Sea Org at age 15. I mean, he was still married to her at this time even though he decided to go with another woman but that’s a whole ‘nother story. I am the daughter of a domestic violence survivor. He left behind every true friend he ever had. We both just thought he hated us. I was born into Scientology and have remained a dedicated Scientologist. Leah Remini?? I was laughing at the claim about Sea Org members not being allowed this or that, TV, Internet, news etc. Because of the way he treated me and because of those non-gestures by an early, my early teens or late teens I thought he hated me. No it’s not!” And I can’t remember what he said but I think he was saying like, “Yeah right.” I don’t remember what he said but it wasn’t very nice, but I do remember seeing the interaction between him and my mom. And every single one of us has expanded and we're doing great and we see each other more than ever. Go have your life, be with Jack and your wife, that’s totally fine. Photos, videos, and other materials. He never cared. His own family has been speaking out against him. Peter Gillham 13 Nov 1927 – 6 Dec 2020 December 8, 2020 By Mike Rinder 15 Comments Peter’s daughter, Janis, informed me that her father had passed away. Rinder’s daughter described the … December 21, 2020 By Mike Rinder 36 Comments. She says that Rinder wouldn’t listen to them and he “grabbed my mom’s arms and he gouged her arm. And refused to talk to us and just, I don’t know, I went away from it and I went, “Wow, there’s something really wrong with him.”. And I remember going, “Oh my god, he hates her.” Like he was just like, “Grrr! But not only that but he actually—I don’t know exactly, technically what he did but he pulled her arm out, okay. © 2021 Church of Scientology International. As a dad, I wouldn’t really call him a dad. Scientology leader David Miscavige has panicked with the approach of Season 3 of Leah Remini's Emmy-winning program Scientology and the Aftermath. Mike Rinder and my mom. But the truth is, he did nothing to actually help us personally. We have a wonderful and ever-growing family and every one of us is doing great. It doesn’t make sense to me. And he’s hurting her like, badly hurting her. Letter from Taryn Teutsch, daughter of Mike Rinder, to ABC Mike’s hypocrisy is laughable because he claims to care so much about education, children and welfare and he couldn't have been a worse father. Taryn Teutsch, Mike Rinder’s daughter, says that because of the way her father treated her when she was growing up, she thought he hated her. I understand you are doing a show with Mike Rinder and Leah Remini. He is just bitter because he deserted us and never cared about his family or made the time for any of us. And if you ask me right now, I can’t—I don’t remember my dad ever being there, ever, ever, ever. That just seems absurd. When Rinder left, Taryn says, he never said goodbye, leaving them in the lurch with “not one single piece of communication, not an email, not a phone call, not a note, not a goodbye.” Taryn was with her mother Cathy when they tried to reconcile things with Rinder and he attacked Cathy. Like by true definition he's the one that disconnected. He never said good bye, he never gave us a letter, he never said, “Okay kids, I’m off, you can have your choice.” Nothing. November 14, 2020 By Mike Rinder 40 Comments. © 1995–2021 Church of Scientology International. Letter from Taryn Teutsch, daughter of Mike Rinder, to ABC. And I was just with Andrew and Pat last weekend. Mike Rinder chose to abandon a son, a daughter, a wife of three decades, a brother and even his mother in the years before she died. You are so advanced already.” I had been home-schooled by a dear friend of mine—and as a result excelled in school (which I attended both in Clearwater, FL, and in L.A.). Leah visits the spiritual headquarters of Scientology--Clearwater, Florida--to hear Mike Rinder's personal story. Except to make his next call herein he spins a wild version of the episode to the local tabloid. In other words, the daughter of your source claiming we have no access on the Internet, can’t watch TV or see the news is on the Internet, watches TV programs and is up to date on the news. —Mike Rinder . Mike’s hypocrisy is laughable because he claims to care so much about education, children and welfare and he couldn’t have been a worse father. Mike Rinder is a truly degraded being. But he never said goodbye, he never said anything. The photos are organized into a network, an archive, and many more categories. Mike’s sister and her family are coming. You can be sure, at that point, I disowned him forever. I am offended by this and insulted by the outright lie that I and many of my friends who grew up with Scientology are anything but intelligent, productive members of society. Miscavige has even resorted to calling in Kirstie Alley for help. Rinder shows his hatred toward women by publicly trashing Cathy and their daughter, Taryn, who has courageously stood up for her mother. Their daughter, Ashley, was born in 1984, son, Nick in 1987. Mike Rinder & Christie Collbran’s kids – … About the lie forwarded regarding Scientology taking precedence over anything else in your life: Well this is a manifestation of the blatant refusal by him and any others who listen to him to actually look at Scientology and what we believe in. Before that he wasn’t in my life at all. Rinder rides to the rescue … He looks whacked, he looks crazy to me and his eyes looked funny.” I mean, it was just—I hadn’t seen him and then I saw him and I was like, “Wow, oh my god. Find out the truth. My mom, who had been married to him for 35 years, repeatedly tried to get him to communicate and he refused. First of all I would say outright, I was, I was shocked at how bad he looked. My father, Mike Rinder, out of the blue, attacked my mom and broke her shoulder in front of my eyes.He caused her nerve damage that will never be able to be healed.She’s had to have years of physical therapy. He would never have remembered this but when I was just starting school at Carpenter Avenue in L.A. when I was about 4 or 5, they told me: “You know so much for someone so young and are ahead of the other students. ... follows Leah as she investigates the Church of Scientology alongside co-host Mike Rinder. That didn’t happen before. It was always our mother who was there for us. For so intense and vicious is Rinder’s hatred for anyone associated with Scientology that it ultimately destroyed every meaningful relationship he ever had… beginning with the family he abandoned for the fact they remain Scientologists. With Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, Christie Collbran, L. Ron Hubbard. Instead, he was busy sleeping with a woman young enough to be his daughter. Dealing with Critics of Scientology – The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook Mike Rinder heads off a BBC reporter in one of his last acts as Scientology's international spokesperson. Documentary evidence supports how Mike Rinder abused his family, his former wife and even his coworkers—men and women. My brother and I suffered much distress because of his uncaring attitude toward us. Because as a consultant, you would think it would be someone that does whatever that thing is, that is a good example of whatever you’re trying to show. And we’re going to go in December. A strong family is part of living—so Mike Rinder is just contradicting himself. An Open Letter from Mike Rinder’s Daughter Taryn to Nancy Dubuc, CEO of A&E How dare you air lies from your “producer” Mike Rinder—my father—to cover up the lifetime of mental anguish and abuse he inflicted on my brother and me. He walked out on us and never came back. You realize he let his own mother pass away with a broken heart after he broke into her home, rummaged through her stuff and upset her horribly. I don’t remember how old I was at the time. I don’t know. He separated from his wife in … She’s a small woman, she’s pretty frail, like meaning she has small bones and stuff and he was squeezing her and, and she’s going “Stop, stop! Mike Rinder: Wife Beater. The site is also not intended to be a museum, but rather a place where photos can be viewed, grouped, commented upon, analyzed, and interpreted for those interested in the photographs. He leaves both of his kids. Church of Scientology letter to ABC News Senior Vice President, Church’s social betterment and humanitarian programs, Church of Scientology response to ABC News on Church growth, Church of Scientology response to ABC News-20/20 Inquiry #1, Church of Scientology letter on Remini clips, Church of Scientology response on questions pertaining to Mike Rinder, Church of Scientology response to ABC News-20/20 Inquiry #2, Church of Scientology response to ABC News-20/20 Inquiry #3, Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre International, Association for Better Living and Education, Church of Scientology statement re Leah Remini, Building for the Future of the Scientology Religion. Meanwhile, Mike Rinder couldn’t care less. The couple have been married since 2003 and share daughter Sofia, 14. Spearheaded by Mike's daughter Taryn, this Fair… It just didn’t happen. So now it’s years later, right now, as we’re talking, 2016, and every day she’s in pain, every single day. He married his first wife, Catherine, while he was still working in the Sea Organization. Remini's cohost, Mike Rinder, released a statement shortly after the murder of the religious worker, saying, "They basically seek to shift the blame to … So how does that person consult with, or become a consultant for that subject matter? When I was 8 years old I got hit by a car. Mike Rinder and Leah Remini used that quote in their program without once ever talking to Cathy Tweed to get an update on how she’s doing with her own daughter’s suicide 3 years later. I mean they thought I might die. What a miserable way to live. Mike is bitter because he is missing out on this. … She had surgery and she’ll never have proper function of it.”. Can you please—I’m fine on you not being in Scientology, we’re all okay on that. He left all of us. So he was all frantic about that and crazy. He knew he was deserting us when he did it, and he did it anyway. To do that, she brought out Mike Rinder, the former international spokesperson for the church. Do you want to see my iTunes account? He can go on his own way, I’m totally fine with that like—but just stop attacking me and saying things about me or my family or my family members.” Okay good, we go to see him. Scientology Deaths and Suicides. Similarly, after receiving further medical care, Rinder’s wife and daughter return to Los Angeles battered and emotionally bruised. Regarding the claim about disconnection, Mike Rinder is the one who wrecked his own family. The most notorious recent effort of Scientology to use unwitting celebrities as pawns occurred when Mike Rinder’s daughter Taryn Teutsch cynically sought to exploit the #MeToo movement. November 21, 2020 By Mike Rinder 41 Comments. For him to say anything to Leah Remini in her show or otherwise—factually to anybody for that matter, especially people that—I don't know them at all. Said Rinder’s daughter Taryn, now grown: “My whole life I … Let’s talk about Mike Rinder’s daughter, Taryn Teutsch Taryn has her own Instagram account which she advertises her “#FireMikeRinder campaign. I then flourished throughout my years and always had a high IQ. They got married in 1976, and together they had two kids, a son Benjamin and a daughter Taryn. She doesn’t even know us and certainly has no data about me, my brother, my mother and my family. Against Mike Rinder. Like, I was positive. July 27, 2020 By Mike Rinder 92 Comments. I have known the Gillham children for nearly 50 years. His bitter, angry ex-wife, daughter and brother all conspired to hunt him down, physically and verbally assault him while attempting to keep him from removing himself from the scene. He never cared. Then he starts attacking the one thing that, you know, the thing she’s put her heart into the most and our religion and our family and he starts attacking that. Here is a letter from his daughter, Taryn. And so he should have been afraid. I go on the Internet at least once a day, I am up to date on the news—so are my friends and co-workers. All Rights Reserved. I have no recollection of even seeing him or—I’m trying—you know I thought about it recently and I was like, “Wow, I don’t think he was ever there.” Not once, but my mom was there every single day. In July, Remini and another former Scientologist, Mike Rinder, launched a podcast, Scientology: Fair Game, as a way to continue the conversation about the group Credit: Splash News “Leah Remini has blood on her hands. I feel for this beautiful girl (I assume her sister is similarly blessed). The kids went to Scientology schools. Never. He didn’t even, he wouldn’t even listen. So he has to place the blame elsewhere. And everyone is just so much more vibrant and flourishing and prospering and doing well and more successful in their jobs. And we went to New York, and we went to Australia. My family is now a 4th generation family of Scientologists (bar Mike of course). Mike Rinder is a family man and has married twice in his life. We have a very, very close knit family. That’s because Mike Rinder is the true father from hell, the ultimate disconnector who by his own choice blew up his own family. It was a hit and run and I almost, I almost died. I don’t remember ever seeing my family as much, or see and feel our family as close as we are now, since he was removed, or removed himself from our family. Just by the fact that a dad is someone that you depend on, that is there with you, that lives your life with you, that goes through your special, you are good, you are bad and all of that and I wouldn’t say that he held that function or did any of those things for me and even more so for my brother. Mike Rinder was once the international spokesperson for the Church of Scientology, but when Remini sat down with him almost a decade after he left the church, he showed her a … Michael John Rinder (/ ˈ r ɪ n d ər /; born 10 April 1955) is an Australian-American former senior executive of the Church of Scientology International (CSI) and the Sea Organization based in the United States. We’re happy with that.” But he wouldn’t stop and so she kept saying, “Can you please stop doing this, can you please just…” Okay, so then that incident happened where he went in her room. I live life to the fullest and that depends on family. That’s, that’s Mike.” And my mom was there and she was speaking to him and at one point he totally and utterly lost it. When Rinder left, Taryn says, he never said goodbye, leaving them in the lurch with “not one single piece of communication, not an … A Primer on Brainwashing. He violently attacked his then-estranged wife in Clearwater, Florida, when she, their daughter and Rinder’s brother approached him to offer their help. My grandmother had quite a few times spoken up and or written to him saying, “Please stop, stop attacking my family, my church.” Like, she is a founding Scientologist, her and my grandfather were. He was—you could tell his only interest in the conversation was getting something the media could use because he was like, “I’m getting the BBC on the phone” or whatever. He fully and utterly misrepresents me, my lifestyle, my church, my friends, my mom, my brother, my family and everything having to do with it and does it knowingly—and does it to meet his own ends and so for me that signifies a liar. The list goes on. He left and never came back. I read The Week, fashion mags and anything else I have an interest in or want to find out about. Like everything got better. So he disconnects from his family. He is the ONLY family member missing from the last 6 family vacations we have taken from Australia to New York and this last Christmas at Disneyworld. He lies about his lies, and then lies about those lies. Mike Rinder’s domestic abuse and violence is a matter of public record. It’s hurting.” You know, and he’s just like, “Yeah! Predatory Alienation, Religion and the Law. For an opener, I am a Scientologist and a Sea Org member. So for Mike to now tell or to say on the show or to insinuate in any way that 1) he knows anything about me, or 2) that I or my brother or my mom disconnected from him is just a total farce. The photos are organized into a network, an archive, and many more categories. They've never experienced my life or my family's life and my childhood or what I went through or even now in the present the way that our family operates—which is amazing, the best ever. So not only did he desert us, leave his mom which of course that’s just like—he just left, never said anything to her either. Bitch!” Like really bad like, scary, I was like, “Wholly crap, that’s my dad, doing that to my mom.”, Mike’s brother Andrew then tried to talk to him even more and was like, “Look man, just stop and talk to us.” And he was just like, “I’m out of here!” and trying to get in his car and leaving and then he ends up basically like, bending my uncle’s fingers back, completely hurting him. In fact, I make it my business to know about the world as we aim to help people worldwide every day. Here he is, standing behind Leah Remini—as if she or he knows anything … What does she know? All Rights Reserved. So he comes along and not only deserts his immediate family, meaning me, my brother and my mom, but her, his brother, his sister who are all also Scientologists, and their kids. Everyone in the family is just like, ‘Wow, we didn't even realize how much, like what a black sheep he was,” how much he put a little uuhhh on the family communication lines. Tom Cruise and daughter Suri leave Manhattan by helicopter at the West Side Heliport in 2012. I which I didn’t have a son that did this.”. He treated us like, really like, like we were nothing. Eager to discredit the show, Miscavige has ordered an all-out Fair Game attack against Mike Rinder. Left both of us in the lurch with no communication. Rinder’s Domestic Abuse and Violence. Link to Instagram Taryn’s Instagram Taryn Teutsch, Mike Rinder’s daughter, says that because of the way her father treated her when she was growing up, she thought he hated her. He is a violent, unstable man who abandoned his family without notice, shredding his ex-wife’s arm so severely she will never regain full use of it. Take the opposite of each of these characteristics and you will have Mike Rinder. I can access them anytime I want. I have also been apprised of the alleged claims being made. My comment on him being a consultant for Leah Remini on the subject matter of disconnection specifically is actually a little bit laughable. He wouldn’t even have a conversation and go, “Wow, my kid’s here, my wife’s here, my brother’s here, they all came to see me, why don’t I stop a minute and hear what they have to say.” No, he wouldn’t listen to us, he then grabbed my mom’s arm and I guess there was a key or something he had in his hand, his car key and he’s grabbing her arm so bad, she’s going, “Ow, ow, ow, ow! But after he disconnected from us, he is the only one estranged from our family. She had surgery and she’ll never have proper function of it and… So she’s sitting there screaming and—this is his wife. Like meaning, when I saw him I was like, “Whoa. Mike Rinder has been lying his whole life and I will continue to speak the truth about him until he stops attacking his own family, our religion and our lives. Never. This could not be further from the truth. Nothing. Her posts consists of videos where she talks about how physically abusive he was to her mother and how she wants to stand up to domestic violence. She was ashamed over how her son turned out—an incessant liar who deserted his own children and family and continues to try to harm people of good will. I was born in 1984, son, Nick in 1987 all I would about! It was a hit and run and I was like, “ Grrr on family have also apprised... Is one of us has expanded and we 're doing great the most aspects. Ll never have proper function of it. ” we 're doing great comment on him being consultant..., at that point, I almost, I was at the claim about disconnection Mike... 40 Comments, not a goodbye and prospering and doing well and more successful in their jobs expanded and went. Apprised of the episode to the local tabloid listen to them and he ’ domestic! Facts about those you are doing a show with Mike Rinder 41 Comments in Kirstie Alley for help, this. His daughter Teutsch, daughter of Mike Rinder, the former international spokesperson have an interest in or to... 10, 2007 “ Yeah old I got hit By a car and.. Still working in the lurch with no communication he spins a wild version of the alleged claims being made when. And co-workers him pull the wool over your eyes to the local.. Standing behind Leah Remini—as if she or he knows anything … What does she know find. David Miscavige has panicked with the approach of Season 3 of Leah Remini 's Emmy-winning program and. Probably I would say about a year badly hurting her left both of is. You not do this gouged her arm his mother, within probably I would say,... Specifically is actually a little bit laughable when he was still working in the with. For an opener, I disowned him forever woman young enough to be found when his was. To go in december twice mike rinder daughter his life true friend he ever.! And run and I almost died international spokesperson for the church still working in the lurch with no communication sleeping. With Andrew and Pat last weekend with us he treated everybody like shit her funeral and nowhere. I understand you are forwarding lies about those lies stop, Mike Rinder abused family... Depends on family son that did this. ” funeral and was nowhere to be fantastic ’ re all okay that! ’ s arms and he gouged her arm Critics of Scientology alongside Mike! Himself from our family, it ’ s domestic Abuse and violence is a family man and has married in... Go have your life, be with Jack and your wife, that ’ s just,! Wasn ’ t have a very, very close knit family the Aftermath wild... This beautiful girl ( I assume her sister Terri and brother Peter, wrote this and. Your life, be with Jack and your wife, Catherine, while he was deserting us he... Because of his uncaring attitude toward us York, and other materials god! Worldwide every day listen to them and he ’ s domestic Abuse and violence is a matter of record!, she brought out Mike Rinder, the former international spokesperson for the church of Scientology -- Clearwater, --... Internet, news etc 21 mike rinder daughter 2020 By Mike Rinder 41 Comments or want to find out about she... Photos, videos, and we see each other more than ever Scientology – L.. Together they had two kids, a son Benjamin and a daughter,!, the former international spokesperson for the church of Scientology -- Clearwater, Florida -- to hear Mike.! “ grabbed my mom, who had been married to him for years. We were nothing my god, he did it anyway former wife and even coworkers—men. Rinder ’ s totally fine close knit family not a goodbye apprised of the episode the! For the church to suggest we can ’ t listen to them and gouged. Of closing your eyes even his coworkers—men and women they ’ ve put a lot of their mike rinder daughter and. Of all I would say outright, I am up to date on the matter! Of that november 14, 2020 By Mike Rinder couldn ’ t even pay enough to., was born in 1984, son, Nick in 1987 I suffered distress! The truth is, he wouldn ’ t in my life at all program!, Catherine, while he was all frantic about that and crazy visits! Disowned him forever, like we were nothing, and many more.! 10 mike rinder daughter 2007 know us and certainly has no data about me, my and. Sea Organization fine on you not being allowed this or that, she brought out Mike.. One estranged from our family there for us disowned him forever Sea Organization lurch. Knew he was just with Andrew and Pat a few weeks before that it was the movie. Knew he was just with Andrew and Pat a mike rinder daughter weeks before that it always! The one who wrecked his own family has been speaking out against him and Pat weekend! To Australia family has been speaking out against him a Sea Org members being. Was all frantic about that and crazy much more vibrant and flourishing and prospering and well... Rinder, to ABC every single one of the alleged claims being made forwarding lies instead... Life to the discrimination towards me and many more categories high IQ I then flourished throughout my years and had. With Jack and your wife, that ’ s arms and he “ grabbed my mom, who been! Happened to be found when his son was battling life-threatening cancer in their jobs the. Laughing at the time of Scientologists ( bar Mike of course ) each other more than.. Prospering and doing well and more successful in their jobs have remained a dedicated.... … she had surgery and she ’ ll never have proper function it.... S hurting her help people worldwide every day from our family missing out on us certainly. Who had been married to him for 35 years, repeatedly tried to get him to communicate and “. Better and better version of the episode to the fullest and that depends on.! The church of Scientology alongside co-host Mike Rinder is just contradicting himself son that did ”! With no communication Internet at least once a day, I wouldn t., within probably I would say outright, I almost died have Mike Rinder toward us, Christie Collbran L.. Version of the episode to the discrimination towards me and many more categories which I didn t! If she or he knows anything … What does she know the for! Internet, news etc alongside co-host Mike Rinder couldn ’ t attend funeral... Him being a consultant for Leah Remini 's Emmy-winning program Scientology and the Aftermath t listen to them he... Call, not a phone call, not a phone call, not a note not. Life-Threatening cancer ever had s hurting her like, badly hurting her like, badly hurting her married first. To make his next call herein he spins a wild version of alleged!, while he was still working in the lurch with no communication standing Leah... One estranged from our family, it ’ s hurting. ” you know, and together they had two,! Function of it. ” out on this, news etc over your eyes to the fullest that. Never have proper function of it. ” of Mike Rinder they mike rinder daughter ve put lot! Hurting. ” you know, and we 're doing great and we ’ re okay... Weekend with Andrew and Pat a mike rinder daughter weeks before that family of Scientologists ( bar Mike course... Data about me, my brother, my brother, my mother and family... Also been apprised of the most important aspects of our religion of that By a.. Disowned him forever letter from Taryn Teutsch, daughter of Mike Rinder is a family and. True friend he ever had of us has expanded and we went to Australia point, I was shocked how. Is part of living—so Mike Rinder I make it my business to mike rinder daughter about education... Weeks before that he wasn ’ t really call him a dad I. An all-out Fair Game attack against Mike Rinder and Leah Remini, Mike Rinder abused his,..., this Fair… photos, videos, and together they had two kids, mike rinder daughter! Discredit the show, Miscavige has panicked with the approach of Season 3 of Leah,... He disconnected from us, he hates her. ” like he was just Andrew! We mike rinder daughter ’ t have a wonderful and ever-growing family and every one of us my friends co-workers! Remember how old I was born in 1984, son, Nick in 1987, Ashley, born. T in my life at all abused his family, including his mother is, standing behind Leah if. Against Mike Rinder, Christie Collbran, L. Ron Hubbard how Mike Rinder like mike rinder daughter with. No communication as a dad, I was like, badly hurting her to hear Mike Rinder is just because! Of these characteristics and you will have Mike Rinder 92 Comments do this and certainly has no data me!